Progressive responses to "reasonable" MRAs
I don't think this would address the heart of Aaronson's concern:
"Reflecting about it on my walk home, I realized: actually, give or take the exact percentages, this is precisely the progressive thesis. I.e., that just like at least a solid minority of Germans turned out to be totally fine with Nazism, however much they might’ve denied it beforehand, so too at least a solid minority of Americans would be fine with—if not ecstatic about—The Handmaid’s Tale made real. Indeed, they’d add, it’s only vociferous progressive activism that stands between us and that dystopia."
If you push back on this with real MRA complaints, you can usually get some acknowledgment that there are issues to fix. For example, father's visitation rights to their children in divorces. It's not hard to find heartbreaking stories in this sphere or a general acknowledgment that the courts and social services are unfair to men. But I've had this conversation with lots of liberals and feminists before and it doesn't really change their mind.
And I think Aaronson's comment here is the core of it. They're truly, in their heart of hearts, scared of 5-10% of the population which they believe is truly, 100% Nazi-dystopian. These people are an existential threat to Aaronson's way of life and he believes that ~80% of the population, while not dystopian Nazis, would go along with them if they took power. And I think their honest mental model of, say, a well meaning MRA dad who's fighting for visitation rights to his kids, is that he's a useful idiot for the dystopian Nazis. That while his individual situation is unfair and unjust, no useful reform should be enacted because this is a stalking horse for the dystopian Nazis, the father's advocacy is strengthening the Nazi's hand, and the longer he hangs out in that space, the more likely he is to become a Nazi.
But, at it's core, I think that's how Aaronson and others would respond to Bryan or "reasonable" MRAs or the like; that these people don't understand just how dangerous the dystopian Nazis are and I think Aaronson would model Bryan as being "blind" to this threat. And this threat outweighs any concrete harms or issues Bryan et al could bring up, because this risk is Nazi dystopia.
I've used "dystopian Nazi" somewhat mockingly, partly because I think they really think this way and it's wrong, but I should clarify that this...meta level of thought is hardly unique to liberals. For example, this is vey specifically how the right models the woke: a small group of extremists who are an existential threat to their way of life pushing sympathetic policies as a Trojan horse for radically extremist views. The idea that you should oppose specific policies and groups, even if they have several good concrete proposals, because they're secretly manipulated by extremist forces who will destroy everything you value, is not only a generalizable view to lots of situations but also, often, a correct analysis.
Original post: https://betonit.substack.com/p/aaronson-versus-dystopia/comment/11011179